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Force Arcade card usage...?

 
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akamichi
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2002 11:34 am    Post subject: Force Arcade card usage...? Reply with quote

Is there anyway to tell magic engine to use the arcade card functions for games that are SCD/ACD compatible? It would be nice to have an option instead of detection being automatic.

So far, all the arcade card only games I've tried work fine, but I can't get any of the SCD/ACD games to detect Arcade card. The two games I've tried so far are 3x3 Eyes and Asuka 120%.

There's only like 6 of these games I believe. I mostly want to compare the differences between SCD and ACD usage of the games. Sure, I can do it on my Duo, but that's no fun. Smile

Thanks!

- akamichi
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Laahel
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellow

hum erhh, just wondering, what are the games that use scd/acd systems ????

thanks

bye
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Danjuro
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings,

I just remember a few, besides those already named upstairs.

Linda Cube, Sotsugyo 2, Gulliver Boy, Popful Mail, Tanjo - Debut, Princess Maker 2...

Mileage may vary, while it doesn't matter much to some games (For instance, it just suppress the loading times on a real PC-Engine and put cd sound on the Opening and Ending Sequences in 3x3 Eyes), it improves some other dramatically (Linda Cube...). And there is THE funny exception : Princess Maker 2. The arcade card version is much much worse than the SCD one, making the ability to switch between Arcade Card and Super System Card in Magic Engine a really nice idea...

Now let's just wait for Kaminari to post a complete listing in the next few hours ;)
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Kaminari
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Force Arcade card usage...? Reply with quote

akamichi wrote:
Is there anyway to tell magic engine to use the arcade card functions for games that are SCD/ACD compatible? It would be nice to have an option instead of detection being automatic.


So glad you made the suggestion Very Happy

Yes, that would be cool to be able to select 'Arcade Card' right under 'System Card 3' in the Boot CD menu (shameless plug).

By popular demand (and because my pal Danjuro won't do the dirty work Wink ), here is an exhaustive list of ACD and ACD/SCD games.

* ACD

Fire Pro Joshi D˘mu Ch˘jo Taisen
Gar˘ Densetsu 2
Gar˘ Densetsu Special
Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire
Janshin Densetsu
Kabuki Itt˘ Ry˘dan
Mad Stalker
Mad˘ Monogatari
Ryűko no Ken
Shin Nihon Pro Wrestling '94
Strider Hiryű
World Heroes 2

* ACD/SCD

3*3 Eyes
Asuka 120% Maxima
Brandish
Eikan wa Kimi ni
Emerald Dragon
Flash Hiders
Formation Soccer '95
J-League Tremendous Soccer '94
Kűs˘ Kagaku Sekai Gulliver Boy
Linda│
Mahjong Sword
Popful Mail
Princess Maker 2
Private Eye Doll
Sexy Idol Mahjong
Sotsugy˘ 2
Super Real Mahjong P2-3 Custom
Super Real Mahjong P5 Custom
Tanj˘
The Atlas
Vasteel 2
Wrestling Angels

That makes quite a few.
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Laahel
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

arf, played emerald dragon on the duo, i never was able to see the differences...
did someone notice them ???

byyye
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Kaminari
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only difference is about the loading times. For example, you're on the field map and you enter a cave. Theoretically, the first access should be longer than usual (the program fills the Arcade Card with the entire new map); but further accesses (let's say, you come in and out of the cave repeatedly) should be instantaneous.

Though in practice, it can be difficult to spot any real difference. The problem is that the CD accesses in Emerald Dragon are completely unoptimized compared to Linda Cube. As Danjuro said, it's even worse for Princess Maker 2. I would even add 3*3 Eyes to the list...

Linda Cube is a clear example of the kind of improvements you can expect from the Arcade Card regarding the CD accesses.
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NightWolve
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2002 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry guys, I beat you to this one Smile

I asked Dave M. about this awhile ago, cause i noticed that when i tried hacking Sapphire to add english, ME would stop detecting it as an ACD.. ME checks the CRC of the data track, to determine whether or not to enable Arcade Card support given the use of System Card 3.

Well, the point is Dave likes doing it that way, & is pretty much happy with that system, rather than allowing a "enable" Arcade Card support type option... But, I think if we all annoy the hell out of him in such a manner like posting in his MB about it, he might change his mind Smile

j/k Dave Smile
(just a shameless lobby for it)
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dmichel
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightWolve wrote:

Well, the point is Dave likes doing it that way, & is pretty much happy with that system, rather than allowing a "enable" Arcade Card support type option... But, I think if we all annoy the hell out of him in such a manner like posting in his MB about it, he might change his mind Smile


Never! Razz
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Laahel
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightWolve wrote:
Sorry guys, I beat you to this one Smile

I asked Dave M. about this awhile ago, cause i noticed that when i tried hacking Sapphire to add english, ME would stop detecting it as an ACD.. ME checks the CRC of the data track, to determine whether or not to enable Arcade Card support given the use of System Card 3.


just wandering, is there a possibliliti to make external ips patches that are loaded by magic engine with the game, like zsnes does. the crc are not corrupt that way, and, by doing that, no need to re-burn the cd, so, we don't lose any quality or syncro by doing some iso + mp3/wav stuff or something, no ?
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NightWolve
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, actually, i'm translating Xak3.. And you are able to keep the CD intact by using ISO & WAV files, then reassembling them to recreate a bin/cue(won't bother to explain it here, but it's easy)... I use ppf patches, as IPS doesn't work on large files, plus, you wanna be able to burn a new CDR for those that want to play on a real DUO/PCE...

Anyhow, actually, Dave. M said he wanted or was working on doing something like that.. How useful it would be, i dunno... I doubt it as the PCE isn't flooded with "patches".. As to what format the patch would have to be, he'd have to add support for like ppf, & other popular ones.. Eh, seems too much trouble to me.. WE still want manual control of Arcade Card Support Smile
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Kaminari
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2002 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightWolve wrote:
ME checks the CRC of the data track, to determine whether or not to enable Arcade Card support given the use of System Card 3.


Does it have something to do with the CD ID used by ME when taking snapshots? (CD_3F2C360A for Mugen Senshi Valis, etc)

Let's say the Boot CD includes an Arcade Card option. The simple idea would be as follows:

- when booting with System Card 3.0, the emulation runs a plain Super CD system without any Arcade Card stuff (much like when there was no Arcade Card support in ME).

- when booting with Arcade Card, the emu checks the CD ID and enables the Arcade Card support accordingly. If the CD is a regular CD or SCD, that doesn't prevent it from working anyway (on a real machine, you can run nearly all CD games even if the Arcade Card is inserted in the HuCard slot).

Now this CD ID database should include every ACD compatible game (the ones I mentioned above) as well as the ACD-only games, to ensure that they are correctly detected by the Arcade Card feature and get benefit from it.
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NightWolve
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2002 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Dave uses that ID to detect certain "problem" type games & enable certain features to make the game work as well.. He has the IDs stored for all ACDs.. I know that much, not sure if he got the SCD/ACD ones...

You'll find that Game ID both the in the log file & when saving a state file.
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dmichel
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaminari wrote:

- when booting with Arcade Card, the emu checks the CD ID and enables the Arcade Card support accordingly. If the CD is a regular CD or SCD, that doesn't prevent it from working anyway (on a real machine, you can run nearly all CD games even if the Arcade Card is inserted in the HuCard slot).

Now this CD ID database should include every ACD compatible game (the ones I mentioned above) as well as the ACD-only games, to ensure that they are correctly detected by the Arcade Card feature and get benefit from it.


I'm not sure yet if I will add an Arcade Card choice in the boot cd menu, but yes, this is how I would implement it. It's easy to extend the ID check to SCD/ACD games too.
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